NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/sys/amiga/programmer/6488

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 7.5 KB

Path: newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Cmarschn)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Say *perhaps* to fat binaries (was: what the new amiga-os *must* have)
Date: 28 Mar 1996 19:23:39 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Cmarschn)
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I just post this as a new message because this f***ing AOL program crashes
each time when I want to post this (apparently controversial, even for the
program) issue

Im Artikel <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Hans Guijt) schreibt:


>A fat binary format is *exactly* what we do not need.

refer to what I wrote somewhere else in this thread. Don't stick to that
PPC/68k stuff, I want resources etc. to be included and dynamically
linked.

>
>ie. Windows is *really primitive*...

Maybe if you program Windows in C.
>
>>program, you can use the same commands to draw curves, rotate text and
use
>>different pen types on the screen *and on the printer*. Try that on the
>>amiga! Ever made printer output besides ascii-text? Then you know what I
>>mean. And more fundamentally: more drivers are badly needed. Graphics
>>Accelerator cards have to path (!) the system functions to get useable.
>
>You use a rastport to print graphically. You can use all available
graphic
>primitives to draw into that rastport.

Have you ever made an attempt to do graphics output on a graphics printer
like deskekts or laser printers (w/o postscript)? Or which OS is better?
Unix? TeX-Fan, eh?

>>keys or tab and the cycle gadgets don't use a menu to choose what you
want
>
>Amiga's generally speaking come with a mouse. It can conveniently be used
to
>press gadgets and the like. The Windows system (tabbing through endless
>gadgets) is extremely inconvenient. I work with it every day, so I say
this
me too
>with some authority.

I don't want to use *any* mice when I *type in a text*. And even when I
use the mouse, it's often faster to use the keyboard with the left hand as
an accelerator. Years ago I worked with DOS-based programs fully
controlled with short cuts and keyboard driven interfaces. I'm still using
the Norton Commander (much better than any Windows File Manager) and
QEdit, both much faster than I do in graphical environments today. (I'm
still looking for an equivalent to NC or MC (Linux) on the Amiga). Unix
users won't use a mouse unless they're forced to, just because it's simply
slower to look for the pointer and search for an icon than to press some
simple keys. And it's still slower if you always have to change between
keyboard and mouse.

>You are talking about exactly *1* commidity here: CycleToMenu. If you
want
>it, it's a one time installation and it will work for the lifetime of
your
>Amiga.

Well, then just built these features in the OS. (I'm also using
CycleToMenu)

>
>>inner representation of the GUI system is totally out of date. IBM made
an
>>effort to reach user friendliness in 1991 with the Common User Access
Style
>>Guide. This guide contained notebook-like property boxes and containers
(for
>>icon boxes, tree views and a spreadsheet-like view). And Windows
included
>>most of them in 95. Not the Amiga.
>
>No, the Amiga had them since time immemorial. *WE* are not stuck with
string
*WHERE*? Proove!
>gadgets that close your window when you press return (as happens far too
>often in Windows applications).

No, *we* often have to type in a text, then change to mouse and look for
the OK gadget, just because some stupid programmers can't set the OK to
return or tab-cycle to it.

>I generally find that C= had very sensible ideas about how things should
>work. The Amiga is the *only* windowing system that I know that has
'toback'
>gadgets on every window. I positively HATE Windows for not having them: I
am
>always moving windows aside in the vague hope of finding other windows
that
>got hidden before. Of course, once you want that particular window back
>you'll have to move the front window even further if you want to find the
>original window again...

Ok, but what about the limited moving feature on the amiga? You can't move
them out of the screens, unless you have EGS, can you? A detail I forgot
on the list.

>And then there is the dropdown listboxes that always open *with the same,
>wrong size*.
Is it worse than a (non CycleToMenu-) CycleGadget, where you have to click
several times to set the option you want and where you always see just one
option at a time?

>And windows that open with their titlebar hidden below the
>taskbar (yes, I use windows 95).
I heard there was an option to turn that off (I'm using WfW).

>yes, I know windows 95 should have proportional scrollbars. Unfortunately
>it doesn't in any of the applications that I regularly use.

You cannot expect your old applications to support these features, just as
you cannot expect GraphiCraft to do 24 Bit ;)

>(...)
>Their styleguide does not even specify the order of response gadgets! You
>cannot intuitively cancel windows, you always have to scan it for the
right
>cancel button.
I'm talking of the IBM style guide, which is written for OS/2. And besides
some users of Borland compilers, all software companies I know stick to
the "positive -> left, negative -> right" buttons.

>>low speed, C structures, harsh casts -- it's no pleasure to program that
>>(even try to debug it!).
>
>What you say about BOOPSI is complete bullshit.
Even MUI has to break with the style guide to implement some features (I
cannot imagine which ones -- I deleted MUI because of its lack of speed ;)
(and mind your language)

>
>No, you'd rather have that great windows API (GetWindowLong (Window, -16)
>anyone?)...

Thank God you won't have to use these direct API calls, because thei're
all encapsulated by excellent class libraries like MFC or OWL. Show me
such a library on the Amiga! I'll take back many of my complaints. Or are
*you* still programming in C??

>
>> (snip) The resources are loaded only
>>when needed. All changes can be made with a WYSIWYG editor, not with a
text
>>editor.
>
>So you can change dialog boxes in Windows - big deal. Now try hacking
*real
>windows*. Oops - you can't.

Even no prob with a class lib.

>>More important details concerning the user interface: A new standard
font
>>(throw topaz in the trashcan), a bigger sizing gadget, totally keyboard
>>driven environment, local menus, notebooks and other class stuff,
support
>>for truetype and type-1 fonts, better color displaying and printing
>>facilities, pen and filltype selection, and, finally, a new asl.library.
>
>Support for truetype and type-1 fonts comes in the form of
bullet-compatible
>libraries. As a matter of fact support for these is already available
from a
>commercial source: if you buy WordWorth you get both libraries.

Don't wanna buy Wordworth. Include it in the OS!

>Pen and filltype selection? Mind explaining *where*?
what, where?

>New ASL? What should it contain?
ie. directory trees, extension selection by a given list...

>>\///  Clemens Marschner [e-mail]
>                                  ^^^
>
>Damn, I should have known!

I'm using AOL because there's no AOL client for the Amiga and it's a fast
ISP and a good online service. And don't forget the Amiga logo to the left
;)

cu

Clemens

\/  watch this

     ///
---
///-----------------------------------------------------------------------
\\\///  Clemens Marschner
[e-mail]
-\///------------------------------"Uh, I shot Marvin in the face!"
(Travolta)